Like, I looked so young for so long.

I was reporting in Lincoln Park High School, and I would get stopped for a hall pass.

I had no idea what I was going to do.

And I end up in Minnesota.

They said, why are you leaving?

And I said, I don't want to talk to you anymore.

From the TAT Audio Collective, this is Design Matters with Debbie Milman.

On Design Matters, Debbie talks with some of the most creative people in the world about what they do, how they got to be who they are, and what they're thinking about, and working on.

And I think there was some part of me that was just so determined to just prove to myself that I was right.

On this episode, in celebration of the 20th anniversary of Design Matters,

we'll hear Debbie interview the interviewers, excerpts from her conversations with fellow podcasters and radio hosts.

And along the way, I went from being a musician to being something between a musician

and a storyteller and a journalist.

For the past 20 years, I've been talking to people about their lives.

I conduct research to find out as much as I can about my guests, and then my job is to craft questions, ask as many of them as time and good sense allows, and pay close attention to the answers.

Easier said than done, though. It took me a long time to feel like I really knew what I was doing.

It's been one of my great pleasures to interview a number of my fellow podcast hosts in recent years, people I've admired and

learned from for a long time. They do what they do with pleasure, intelligence, and skill.

I know it's not always easy for them to be

on the other side of the mic, but as we say in the business, they are often good talkers,

great talkers even, especially about their own learning curves. In this episode, I'm going to

play you some excerpts from interviews I've loved with some of my

...