It's not only harmony, but it's provocative at the same time.

I mean, my goal is to teach somebody how to see.

I mean, it's bringing something to you, and then you have to bring something to it.

From the TED Audio Collective, this is Design Matters with Debbie Millman.

On Design Matters, Debbie talks with some of the most creative people in the world

about what they do, how they got to be who they are,

and what they're thinking about and working on.

On this episode, in celebration of the 20th anniversary of Design Matters,

we're going deep into the archives to hear from some of the

greats about the power and responsibility of design. It participates in the world of communication.

That's just the nature of the beast. When I started design matters 20 years ago, I mostly interviewed designers.

I was, and I still am a designer, and I wanted to have deep informed conversations with some of the leading lights of my profession.

In the early days, the podcast sounded quite a bit different.

I think we had a little bit of a technical difficulty at that moment.

It was bad telephone audio of me and my guests.

I mean, I think it's an interesting coincidence.

But in 2009, I was able to take it up a notch.

I had a little podcast studio built in my offices at the School of Visual Arts in New York City,

where I run the world's first master's program in branding.

I hired a producer, who was still my producer, a wonderful man named Curtis Fox.

I also slowly began interviewing people beyond the world of design,

artists, writers, filmmakers, musicians, creative people, all people living uniquely creative lives.

...