Hello and welcome back to the secular Buddhism podcast.

This is episode number 209.

In this special interview episode, I sit down with my friend and fellow traveler on the path, Heather Shank.

Many of you may recognize Heather from our online community.

She's been part of our Sanga since 2020.

And what began as a personal journey through suffering and self-inquiry has now culminated

in the release of her first book, Unbecoming Ourselves.

Heather shares the deeply personal story behind her book, how her identity as a nurse, mother,

and, quote, good person, created a cycle of striving and self-judgment, and how Buddhist teachings

like groundlessness and permanence and the nature of suffering helped her begin to loosen her grip

on those labels. Together we explore the difference between who we are and who we think we should

be, and how comparison, curiosity, and mindfulness

can guide us back to a more authentic way of being. We also talk about the sneaky

nature of all-pervasive suffering, how perfectionism often disguises itself as growth,

and how to skillfully work with the inner narrator that many of us carry,

whether you've struggled with self-worth, identity, perfectionism. This conversation offers

powerful insights and gentle encouragement to soften around the stories we tell ourselves.

Heather's book, Unbecoming Ourselves, is available on Amazon,

and you can learn more about her and her work and upcoming courses on her website,

a heart awakened.com. Without further ado, here is the interview I had with Heather.

So I want to acknowledge that we have known each other for quite a while now.

Do you remember when it was that we first interacted?

...