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entrepreneurs like you. Sign up for your $1 a month trial at Shopify.com slash setup. Hello and welcome to the Battleground 44 podcast with me, Saul David.

Today I'm talking to James Holland, bestselling historian and co-host of the hit World War II podcast,

We Have Ways of Making You Talk,

about his new book, Casino 44, Five Months of Hell in Italy.

James came on the podcast early in the year to talk about the Battle of Anzio,

which also features in the book.

But today we're going to concentrate on the even bigger battle that was fought at the same

time to capture the formidable German position at Monte

Casino in southern Italy. So many congratulations on the new book, Casino 44. It is, of course,

your fourth on Italy. You'll be glad to move to different geographical areas. I'm dumb of it. That's

it. Italian campaigned over. Yeah, it's, as you know, so years ago,

when we first got to know each other, I think I was probably working on Italy's sorrow.

That was about the last year of the war, because no one ever really done anything on it.

And I was a bit obsessed with, you know, all the civilian stuff that was going on in the Civil War

and which effectively what it was and partisan operations and, you know, all the civilian stuff that was going on in the Civil War and which effectively what it was and Protestant's operations and, you know, fascist militias,

as well as the kind of the fighting bit in the Apennines and the Gothic line and so on.

And then I kind of left it for left the Italian campaign goodbye. But, you know, I've been over to

...