You're listening to the Michael Shurmer Show.

Welcome to the Michael Shurmer Show.

I'm your host Michael Shurmer.

My guest today is Julia Galiff. She's the host of the popular

Rationally Speaking Podcast, where she's interviewed thinkers such as Tyler Cohen, Sean Carroll,

Phil Teplock, and Neil Degrass Dyson.

She's an advisor to Open AI, works with the Open Philanthropy Project,

and co-founded the Center for Applied Rationality.

Her 2016 TED Talk, why you think you're right,

even if you're wrong, is viewed over 4 million times.

I think it's over 5 million now.

Anyway, her new book is The Scout Mindset, why some people see things clearly and others don't.

And that's a big problem these days because nobody identifies themselves as not seeing the word clearly or being irrational.

So we go through what she means by this metaphor of a Scout mindset or a soldier mindset, and I read through the characteristics of that in the podcast

We talk about Dan Kahneman's thinking fast and slow as a as another metaphor and how that applies to that. We talk about how to talk to people

that you disagree with or that differ from you. And then we drill down into a bunch of different

issues, you know, like empirical claims and like climate science or vaccines or whatever and how those different from religious beliefs and political beliefs and ideological beliefs and well, it's a long podcast we got in an hour and 45 minutes because I

believe kind of pushed around a whole bunch of different hot button topics you know

BLM and and the whole anti-racism movement and in the implicit racism

test, implicit association test that lies were all racist, she's skeptical of that. We get down to talking about what it means to be

implicit racism in society and how she would apply all the principles of rational thinking in her book to some of these really, really

hard problems and then we end with my challenging her to explain to President Biden how he would structure a room full of Arabs and

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