Welcome to Care More Be Better, a podcast for people like you who care about the social impact of conscious companies and everyday heroes.

Hear inspiring stories from those who put people in planet before profit and personal gain.

You'll learn how you can make a difference, vote with your dollars, and get involved today.

Here's your host, Karina Belizey.

Hello and welcome friends and fellow do-goaters.

Today, I have the honor of interviewing a very special guest,

Genevieve Smith, an expert in social and organizational change,

values alignment, and data for social good.

In two words, she refers to herself as a professional bummer, so we're going to find out what that means. She actually got

connected to me through an interesting Slack channel where women help women called Women Get

Paid. And though her appearance on another podcast, I actually found out a little bit more about her.

She appeared in Change Finance, the ESG podcast for Environment, Social, and Governance Investing.

I was impressed with her approach to social change and the methods she uses to help people navigate uncomfortable conversations.

So the first uncomfortable conversation I'd like to navigate with you, Genevieve, is what does it mean to be a professional bummer?

That's a great place to start. And thank you for having me. Professional bummer. It's kind of come

from a joke. It's really been like, oh no no, Janavov's here. We just came up

with this idea and she's going to tell us what's wrong with it. And what it's really evolved into

is really owning that piece of my work, especially when working with social change organizations

and folks who are do-gooders, right?

And we've got a lot of beautiful collective rhetoric about making the world a better place.

I'm the one who comes in at the lunch when everybody's happy to talk about how much better they're making.

I say, well, wait, hold on.

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