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The individuals that are being pitted against each other are rival gang members.

And so they're sworn enemies, mortal enemies.

And so not to engage your mortal enemy given the opportunity, because the opportunity doesn't

often present itself, would be deemed cowardice and you

would be killed as a result by your own people.

This was a challenging episode because I interview the founder of the Aryan Brotherhood, a racist prison gang.

My mate and co-host Sean Atwood is no stranger to true crime, having worked on both sides of it as a journalist and

presenter now and also as the boss of an organized crime ring in the States that

...