Well I'm back here today with James Grine. He was a victim for many many years under ex-cardinal,

Theodore McCarick. He was the one that the New York Times wrote the article about and he has recently testified

before Vatican officials regarding McCarick and he's back with us today with Timothy

Gordon and we're going to talk about Saint Gallen we're going to talk about McCarick of course we're going to talk about Sank We're going to talk about McCarick of course.

We're going to talk about this investigation in Rome

and where things might be heading in the next year.

James, welcome back. Thank you, Dr. Marshall.

It would be great to see you.

The first interview was fantastic.

People loved it.

So much good feedback, and I think this one will probably be even better because

you know that was just the introduction and now we're like the the appetizer

now we're getting into to the meal to the dinner. You recently testified before, and I don't know the right term here, a Vatican court, an official? What exactly recently happened

with your testimony regarding McCarick?

So I had to go to New York to the Cardinal Cook

building up to the 13th floor.

I let him know that that was a strange number to go to.

And that and when the judicial vicar was in the elevator with us, I said, oh, that's Francis's number.

And everybody was kind of like went silent.

But it's okay.

So we get there, and we are escorted into a small conference room.

There is a, my lawyers there,

...