Nica is my biggest pet peeve.

Erigance breeds complacency.

It keeps you from learning.

It keeps you from getting better.

And you better lead with humility.

Welcome to How Leaders Lead, where every week you get to listen in while I interview some of the very best leaders in the world.

I break down the key learning so that by the end of the episode,

you'll have something simple that you can apply as you develop into a better leader.

That's what this podcast is all about.

My guest today is Alan Shaw.

He's the president and CEO of Norfolk Southern,

a railroad company with a network that serves half the United States population. He spent

nearly three decades there. So he's been working on a railroad for a long, long time. And he's

been doing everything from coal operations to chemicals to marketing. So let me tell you,

if anybody could walk into the room and have all the answers, it's Alan.

He knows this business cold.

But he does the opposite.

For him, leadership is about supporting other people as they discover the answers.

And as you'll hear today, that emphasis on humility is helping him launch a bold new strategy and is helping him navigate

a really tough crisis. This conversation with Alan shows you the power of showing up and doing it

with humility and what that really looks like when you put it into action. So let's dive in.

Here's my conversation with my good friend and soon to be

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