I dreamt that you were twisting through seven sons of gold and the gypsy was insisting

that his story must be told I came two in the morning but I took it as a warning that you might be a treasure.

I could touch but never hold.

Hey, everybody.

Welcome back to the Soberful podcast.

I'm really pleased today to have a guest with me.

I'd like to welcome Michelle Farris to the Soapur Full podcast.

Welcome, Michelle. Oh, thank you so much for having me. It'd like to welcome Michelle Farris to the Soapur podcast. Welcome, Michelle.

Oh, thank you so much for having me. It is really an honor to be on your podcast.

Oh, you're welcome. You were recommended by my friend Sherry Gabor. So if you're good with Sherry, you're good with me. I love that. So I wanted to get Michelle on because we had a podcast recently where we answered questions around codependency.

And Michelle is a licensed psychotherapist, anger management specialist.

And she works with codependent people to create healthy relationships without sacrificing their big hearts.

And I have always felt, Michelle, through my career, that this is a area that's not really

focused on enough or talked about.

And I don't know about you, but I see this everywhere.

Yes, it is everywhere. And I think in the addiction community, it's not talked about

enough because we're focused more on the skills to stay sober from whatever substance that is.

But I find underneath that is all the codependent childhood wounds that need to be dealt with. And that's sort of part

two of recovery. Yeah. I think relationships, particularly romantic relationships, are the hardest thing

that any of us will ever do. Would you agree? Yes, because they bring up all our childhood

stuff. Oh, bingo. That's it. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, I went back in the day when I did

relationship therapy, you know, sometimes, gosh, you know, I'd hear stuff and be like, wow. And I know

...