191 - Holding the Line on Liberal Values, with Helen Pluckrose and Carrie Clark

Gender: A Wider Lens

Sasha Ayad and Stella O'Malley

Health & Fitness, Society & Culture, Mental Health

4.6 • 961 Ratings

🗓️ 1 November 2024

⏱️ 73 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Sasha and Stella welcome writers Carrie Clark and Helen Pluckrose to the show for thoughtful and provocative dialogue, critically examining the intersections of identity, sex-based rights, mental health, and societal influences. Drawing from both personal experiences and professional insights, they explore complex and sensitive ideas around self-expression, feminism, and gender, encouraging a nuanced and reflective perspective. The conversation also delves into the controversy following Genspect’s 2023 Bigger Picture Conference in Denver, known as "Blue Dress Gate," unpacking the cultural and social tensions surrounding the event.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Hi, I'm Stella O'Malley, a psychotherapist in Ireland.
0:04.0	And I'm Sasha Ayyad, an adolescent therapist in the United States.
0:08.0	And this is Gender, a Wider Lens, a podcast dedicated to the shifting concepts around gender in our contemporary culture.
0:16.0	Through in-depth interviews, personal stories, and psychological exploration, we seek to open up the discourse
0:22.7	around this hot button issue. Join us as we look at gender from a wider lens.
0:32.0	Howdy, Stella? How's it going, Sasha? It's going. We had two lovely guests on today, which was really nice.
0:39.8	We had Carrie Clark and Helen Pluckrose, and the conversation was pretty interesting. Tell us about
0:45.9	how you met Helen and Carrie. You know, I had great regard for Helen Pluckrose for years, and
0:50.9	you know, she's just an intellectual giant and I I I I didn't really know her
0:56.3	but we followed each other and then you know the phililly thing happened after Denver and there's
1:01.1	an awful lot of deep discussion about the pros and cons and many many cons of men in dresses
1:08.5	and I was I you know I had I was, you know, I had, I certainly had, you know, a strong grip on what
1:16.2	Jen Speck's outlook was and what our ethos was. But I was watching Helen Pluckrose, you know,
1:23.6	defend the liberal values on Twitter. And I just messaged her saying, hey, I'd love to chat with you
1:28.4	because she's just so brilliant. And so in the end, as a result of me saying that, we just met on
1:34.0	Zoom and she brought along Carrie Clark who was just amazing. And, you know, they rewrote our
1:40.0	FAQs. They came in like two intellectuals and just sorted out Gen Spex kind of thinking.
1:45.7	And it was really good for us. They tested us. They thought. They taught and thought. And they
1:51.6	just really, really got into the principles underlying what Jen Speck stands for. And, you know,
2:00.7	it was really good for us. It was really
2:02.8	rigorous and we're the better for it. And that's how they've come into our lives and they've
2:08.0	been such an addition. They're just absolutely both brilliant thinkers. And they're organized in
	...

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