I was at an in-person conference a few years back, the old days when people used to meet face-to-face.

And a few minutes before we all sat down to dinner, the conference organizer pulled me aside and asked if I would be willing to facilitate the conversation at my table.

Now, that is roughly my least favorite thing to do, and it only

got worse when I was handed a list of suggested topics, not one of which was remotely interesting

to me. So, I decided to try something different, something I'd never tried before. I tore up that

list of topics, and instead, I proposed that to start the conversation, each person should take

five minutes to tell his or her life story.

But, with one twist, I told them I wanted no self-deprecation and no modesty, that I was

giving them permission to be braggy and arrogant.

I turned to the woman sitting on my left.

Her name badge said Marina Nitsa.

She was younger than the other people at the table, small and stature, clearly an introvert. I said, Marina, how about you start? And it was immediately obvious that bragging arrogance was far out of her comfort zone. She spoke slowly, repeatedly apologizing after she noted an accomplishment, each time I interrupted, telling her I gave her 100% permission, indeed that I insisted that she tells us about every amazing thing she had done. And what unfolded was one of the most fascinating life histories I've ever heard.

Welcome to people I mostly admire with Steve Levitt.

More than a year had passed since that dinner when I decided to start this podcast.

I began by writing a list of possible guests I have on the show.

And the first name on that list was Marina Nica.

And I hopefully will find her story as enthralling as I did. Now, in this podcast, I can't recreate the intimacy of a dinner table, and I can't promise her that if she brags and gloats, you listeners won't walk away thinking she's a self-centered, self-promoting jerk. So I'm really worried that the version of her life she gives today won't be nearly as interesting as the

uncensored version she offered that night. I do, however, have one thing working to my advantage.

I've heard the full, arrogant version of her story. So if she leaves the best stuff out, I know

what questions to ask her. Thank you so much for making time for me, Marina.

Thanks so much for having me.

I'm guessing, from what I know about you, that you were a pretty unusual child.

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