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Okay. Hello and welcome to another episode of Bachground 44 with me Saul David.

Last Saturday was the 80th anniversary of the July bomb plot, which narrowly failed to assassinate Adolf Hitler and change the course of history.

To discuss this over two episodes, I'm delighted to welcome back to the podcast, Roger Morehouse,

our sometimes co-host, but more importantly in this context, the author of Killing Hitler,

the Third Reich and the plots against Hitler. Roger, good to have you back.

Thank you, Saul. Good to be here. Okay, as I say, we're going to divide the two episodes into

pre-July bomb plot and then the plot itself, which we'll discuss next week. I should mention

at this point, actually, having had a quick look, a reminder about your book, that it also

covers plots by foreign agents, including the Poles, Soviets and British. And we'll talk a little

bit about that. But we're mainly going to concentrate on the internal stuff. So if we go back to

him first becoming Chancellor, and so that's 1933. You could probably say, I suppose,

in the pre-war years, that the plots were divided roughly, correctly, if I'm wrong, Roger,

between cranks on the one hand, sort of lone wolf authors of these attempts, but also

something slightly more organised by people in official

position. Yeah, authors, I was momentarily, I was imagining, you know, lone wolf writers of

books trying to do something consequential. No, yeah, that's fair enough. That's a fair,

fair sort of division. You've got, you know, as you said, the sort of lone wolf type like Maurice Beauvoir, who's a Swiss theologian who had his attempt in 1938.

And then there's sort of wider, as you said, the wider conspiracies, which are a bit more serious.

I mean, not, not, I would say no less deadly,

...