So like, so you, you refused to listen to Jacko.

So had you been, had you heard him?

Is it like, had you heard him and you were like, whatever, I refuse to listen?

Was it sort of like a, you've been playing bass for a while, then you refuse to listen to Jacko? Okay. Or, yeah, yeah, break it down. Okay, here's, this is quite comfortable. Here's what happened. If I'm honest, I had, I had a few bass teachers in the beginning. I've talked about one really actually traumatic experience I had with the bass teacher very early on. But there was another

base teacher who I only studied with a little bit.

It's brutal.

The short version of that is I had a base teacher that kicked me out of his little space

when I was 13 and because he thought I was trying to, you know, like show off. And it was

really intense. And I think it was all derived, show off. And it was really intense.

And I think it was all derived from his insecurity. And anyway, it took me a long time to sort of understand what happened there. But, but there was another base team. What Ian's trying to say is he was a total moron. Yes, it's true. I mean, he was not you, Ian he was... The bass teacher. Yeah, the base teacher, yeah.

He definitely did a little damage, but, you know, I've come to terms with it.

And I think overall it was a net positive for me in my life.

It really made me take a look at my own, you know, how I wanted to be as an educator.

But this other bass teacher, Pete Hand, predominantly an upright player, played in the

Glacier Symphony Orchestra in Calispell, Montana, a jazz enthusiast and classical

enthusiast, killer on upright and electric, awesome bass player.

He first showed me Jocko.

One of the first things we ever did is he showed me Donna Lee off that record. And I want to say to the bass community, and it was amazing. And I was so

inspired. Oh, I loved it and understood it.

But I thought it sounded like noise.

I was like this.

And I was looking at him.

...