Hello, everyone. It's Clay Jenkinson, welcoming you to this podcast. This is my introduction. I just got off the

interview on Zoom with Matthew Davis, who's in Washington, D.C., but about to move to London. He is the

author of a new book, A Biography of a Mountain, The Making and Meaning of Mount Rushmore. This is one of

my most favorite subjects. I've been there many, many times. I'm sure most of you have, too making and meaning of Mount Rushmore. This is one of my most favorite subjects.

I've been there many, many times.

I'm sure most of you have, too.

If you haven't been, you sort of owe it to yourself to go.

But it is a very, very, very, very problematic thing, Mount Rushmore with a long backstory

that's fascinating.

And it's really helpful to know some of that. And his new book really

covers that ground. Again, the title is a biography of a mountain, the making and meaning of Mount

Rushmore. So look that up, read the book, visit Mount Rushmore, talk with your friends about it.

You know, should it be blown off the mountain? How do we interpret it in

a post-triamphalist era? Why those four are not others? Why no women? Why no Native Americans?

Why not? No African Americans? Is there room for somebody new? I mean, you've probably

heard some suggestions of carving yet another face on Mount Rushmore, unlikely, exceedingly unlikely

to happen. We also talk about Gerard Baker, one of my heroes. He's a Hidotza elder, Adon,

Native Americans of North Dakota, Mandan, Hidotza, Erika. He was the superintendent of Mount Rushmore

for a number of years and revolutionized the interpretation.

He got a lot of pushback, including death threats, of course.

That's what you get when you try to cautiously call into question the triumphalist, white supremacist view of American history.

He also revolutionized the interpretation at the Little Big Horn, and he was the National Parks liaison to the Lewis and Clark expedition between 2003 and 2009.

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