This is Jocco podcast number 165 with Echo Charles and me, Jocco Willick. Good evening,

Erica. Good evening. I've said that war is the ultimate teacher and I think it's also true to

say that war is the ultimate revealer. It reveals a side of people that would not normally be allowed to

come out. Because in war, there's so much happening. There's so much pressure. There's so much emotion.

And it's all so intense and I saw people change and I don't want to make this overly dramatic.

And in most cases, I'm not talking about some big dramatic transformation that a person goes through.

But I am talking about changes and the changes were often visible. Visible things that would be

out of character for someone. They'd start acting a different way, sometimes negative and sometimes

positive. There might be someone whose temper gets quick. It starts to flare up. There might be

someone that becomes more understanding, more forgiving. Some people were happier in combat.

And some were just absolutely stressed to the core. And when I look back now, it becomes very clear

that there were some oscillations in my own attitude. There were sometimes when I had to

reel myself in. I definitely try and stay professional at all times. That's kind of what I do.

I try to play the game. I try not to get emotional. That's just how I try and roll.

But I could feel it sometimes starting to come apart a little bit. And I would have to breathe

mentally, mentally, breathe consciously, pull the pieces back together.

So I don't lose my temper. I don't lose my composure. And I know that that's a good quality.

It's one that I saw other leaders enact. And I thought that that was a positive quality.

And it's one that I tried to emulate. And I got pretty good at emulating that quality. But

sometimes on deployment, I really had to focus on that. I had to focus on keeping my composure.

I had to focus on not getting emotional. I had to detach and tell myself to settle down and

keep it together. And it's not easy to do. And some people have a hard time doing that.

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