I dreamt that you were twisting through seven suns of gold and the gypsy was insisting

that story must be told I came two in the morning but I took it as a warning that you might be a treasure.

I could touch but never hold.

Hi, everybody.

This is Veronica Valley.

And this is Chip Summers.

Welcome to the Soberfall podcast.

We are both in long-term recovery and I've worked with thousands of people as therapists and

coaches. And on our podcast, we talk about anything to do with recovery, addiction, living an

alcohol-free life and our soberful group and programs and all that kind of stuff. So last week,

we were talking about how can I help somebody who

drinks? And we were talking about what that would be like if it's your kid, your teenager,

or an adult, a partner. So we kind of started touching on denial. And then I guess we thought

we should do a whole episode on denial, really, because it's such an important thing.

Yeah. And I think it's part and parcel of

dependency at some point or rather you will go through a stage of denial. So I think it's something

that's really important. And as you said, we all get ourselves in denial about all kinds of life

situations as well. So I think it's very topical and I think it fits exactly the sort of stuff we've been

talking about previously. Before we start though, I did want to say it has kind of been quite a sad

week really with Focus 12. For those people who don't know, I started a rehab 21 years ago and as far

as I was concerned, it was an absolutely amazing place. Veronica worked there and did great

work there, and it had a really beautiful atmosphere. I gave it up three years ago and handed it

...