So you first came on my radar when I was researching a story.

I think it was video game cheats.

And I was like trying desperately to find video game, people who are selling video game cheats.

And nobody wanted to talk with me on the record.

I found a couple people that were just willing to chat only but never like audio.

And then I found an interview you did with somebody who's just like, yeah, I sell video game.

She's like 14 or something.

And I'm like, how did you find this guy?

And so ever since then, I've had just so much respect.

And reading this book is, is once again a testament of just how deep you can get into this community and reach these people.

And so really, heads off to your ability to infiltrate the hacking world.

Thank you very much. Yeah, it's become something of a speciality.

But, I mean, really, I'm always surprised they want to talk, but they do.

I think there is a thing in hacking in cybercrime where, as well as the kind of anonymity

that it brings, I think people like to brag and they like to show off.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I think that leads us right into the first question, which is who are you and what do you do?

And how did you get there?

Well, my name is Joe Tidy,

and I'm the BBC's cyber correspondence.

That means I cover hacking, cybersecurity,

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