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The Rest Is Classified

157. The Road to Iraq: What the Spies Got Wrong (Ep 5)

The Rest Is Classified

Goalhanger

History

4.42K Ratings

🗓️ 17 May 2026

⏱️ 52 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Who was “Curveball”? Why did Colin Powell rely so heavily on flawed intelligence in his presentation to the UN? And how did this set the tone for the opposition to war? As David and Gordon reach the penultimate episode in their series on Iraq WMD, they discuss how things could have gone so badly wrong. ------------------- Join the Declassified Club to go deeper into the world of espionage with exclusive Q&As, interviews with top intelligence insiders, regular livestreams, ad-free listening, early access to episodes and live show tickets, and weekly deep dives into original spy stories. Members also get curated reading lists, special book discounts, prize draws, and access to our private chat community. Just go to ⁠⁠⁠therestisclassified.com⁠⁠. ------------------- Email: ⁠⁠therestisclassified@goalhanger.com⁠ Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@restisclassified⁠ Video Editor: Joe Pettit Social Producer: Emma Jackson Assistant Producer: Alfie Rowe Producer: Becki Hills Head of History: Dom Johnson Exec Producer: Tony Pastor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

For exclusive interviews, bonus episodes, ad-free listening, early access to series,

0:09.0

first look at live show tickets, a weekly newsletter, and discounted books,

0:13.1

join the Declassified Club at the rest is classified.com. Why were MI6 in the CIA so quick to believe an unreliable source?

0:31.1

And could anyone back in 2003 have stopped the march toward war?

0:40.0

Well, welcome to the rest is classified. I'm David McCloskey. And I'm Gordon Carrara. And Gordon, we are on the fifth episode of this journey

0:47.8

into the story around Iraq, WMD. Last time, we spoke a lot about how both governments in Washington and London said about making

0:58.4

the public case for war, and in particular how the UK government put out this dossier to

1:04.1

as sort of a compendium of its best possible information on Iraq's WMD programs, how internally there was a tremendous

1:14.4

amount of consternation at the working levels of British intelligence around the quality

1:19.2

of that information, but how when that dossier came out, Prime Minister Blair's judgments

1:23.5

about WMD were very clear. It was beyond doubt that Saddam had WMD, and we left off

1:27.9

last time with the U.S. starting a very similar process to make the public case for war on the

1:38.2

basis of intelligence. And last time we talked a lot about the source that was alleging that there could be a launch of WMD for Iraq within 45 minutes.

1:49.1

And we're going to go deeper into some other dodgy sources in this episode.

1:58.3

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2:01.6

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2:05.9

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2:09.9

The kind of vulnerability, intelligence services, look for.

2:13.2

And running a business is the same, especially when you're building or growing a team.

2:17.7

It's the risks you can't see or don't understand.

2:20.6

HP designs technology, so devices, collaboration tools and security work together as a single system,

2:28.1

helping teams keep everything running smoothly at home in the office and out in the field.

...

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