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is Upgrade, episode 15. Today's show is brought to you by Iglu and internet you'll actually like. Dash, where you can create beautiful dashboards with just a few clicks and mail route,

a secure hosted email service for protection from viruses and spam.

My name is Mike Curley and I am joined as always by your co-host and mine, Mr. Jason Snell.

Hello Mr. Mike Curley, how are you?

I am very well.

Mr.

C

Mike Curley, how are you? I am very well.

Mr. Jason Snell. I should have introduced you as a...

And I have someone calling him from Phoenix, Arizona.

Yes, yes.

Jason Snell, welcome to the show.

Hi, Mike, I'm a long time listener and all time co-host.

So, yes, from beautiful Phoenix, Arizona, where I'm sitting in the corner of a guest

bedroom at my mother's house where I've recorded many episodes of

various podcasts over the years and the acoustics aren't great but you know we will

we will manage well you sound you sound good. Mainly you're here and that's kind of all I

Yes present because otherwise the show would have been very different just me.

Yeah just yeah that's right. It's just one man's descent into madness. So you very nearly made the decision to record from the road. There was some definite discussion over

the last couple of days.

Yeah, it turns out that the first part of the journey out of sort of Palm Springs and up into the desert from because we were driving from LA to Phoenix is

...