Welcome to the Making Sense Podcast. This is Sam Harris. Just a note to say that if you're

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Today I'm speaking with Jack Dorsey. Jack is the CEO of Twitter and Square. We don't spend a

lot of time talking about Square. We get into the details of Twitter. We talk about the role that

Twitter plays in journalism now, how it's different from other social media, how Jack and the rest

of his team are attempting to reduce the toxicity on their platform. We talk about what makes

conversation healthy, the logic by which Twitter suspends people, the reality of downranking,

and quote, shadow banning. I briefly make my case for banning Trump from the platform.

We talk about Jack's practice of meditation. Anyway, I must say I consider this interview

a missed opportunity. We really were the casualty of timing here more than anything else.

Because we recorded this conversation a week before the Coventon Catholic High School

circus, which as you know, exemplified more or less everything that's wrong with social media

at this moment and Twitter in particular. If you recall, it really seemed in that week that

Twitter accomplished something like the re-enation of journalism. So that would have been great

to talk about and our silence on that topic will be ringing in your ears. So much of what we

talked about with respect to Twitter's policy around suspending people and the politics of all that

really could have been sharpened up had we had a time machine. We also had this conversation

...