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Mormon Stories Podcast

1448: Why Mormon Truth Matters - A Letter to Mormon Apologist Terryl Givens

Mormon Stories Podcast

Dr. John Dehlin

Religion & Spirituality

4.65.2K Ratings

🗓️ 6 July 2021

⏱️ 52 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In September of 2020, professional Mormon apologists Terryl and Fiona Givens were invited to speak at a Mormon church fireside for the Sunderland England Stake of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. During this fireside Terryl Givens was asked to recount an experience he once had with a Mormon missionary woman who was doubting her testimony because of troubling things she learned about Mormon church founder Joseph Smith, Terryl's recounting of the story was as follows:

"I was fortunate that there was a mission president in our area who knew us and our work. And there was a sister missionary who decided that she was going to leave the church. She was finishing her mission the next week and she'd made the decision to go home and leave. And her companion of course deeply distraught over this and asked the mission president "Could we go talk to brother Givens?" And he gave them permission to come and stay as long as they needed so they stayed long into the night. And I listened to one after another question and then finally it occurred to me to ask this one question. And I said to her in regard to one question in particular about Joseph Smith, and I said "Sister" I said, "Why does the answer to that question matter?" And it changed everything. It just caught her up short. And she thought for a minute and she said, "I don't know" (Terryl chuckles). "I don't know."

Many (including myself) were disturbed by Terryl Givens' story/response - particularly since it was directed at currently doubting Mormon church members. We were primarily puzzled, shocked, and somewhat disturbed that the Mormon church's leading professional apologist - who has spent many years writing books for, and speaking/ministering to doubting Mormons - would provide such a glib and seemingly uninformed response. That said, we understand that belief issues are complex, and take Terryl at his word that he sincerely does not understand why troubling aspects of Mormon history, including newly-discovered details about Joseph Smith's life, would matter to a questioning or doubting Mormon.

Consequently, I am launching a new social media campaign with which I could use your help. The goal of the campaign is to help educate Terryl, Fiona, other Mormon Church apologists, and the Mormon church leadership about as to why "Informed Consent" is crucial to both active Mormons and Mormon investigators.

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another edition of Mormon Stories podcast.

0:04.2

I'm your host, Dr. John Delin.

0:06.3

It is July 5th, 2021.

0:08.8

And today I have a solo presentation that I'm excited to deliver to you.

0:14.5

The presentation is entitled Why Mormon Truth Matters, a letter to Mormon apologists, Dr.

0:20.5

Terrell Gibbons.

0:21.5

Again, I'm Dr. John Delin.

0:23.8

And I've done a few of these solo presentations recently, one on Patrick Mason, one to Richard

0:28.8

Bushman, and I've gotten a lot of good feedback that people have enjoyed it, but also they want

0:33.0

to make sure I don't go on too long and that I'm not too ranty.

0:36.1

So I'm going to work really hard to keep today tight, to keep it succinct, but also to keep

0:40.8

it thoughtful and direct and passionate.

0:44.0

So for those of you who have never heard of me before or don't know who I am, or just

0:48.4

stumbling on this on YouTube, I am a six-generation Mormon.

0:52.2

I was an active member of the church, highly participatory for 46 years.

0:57.7

I have a PhD in clinical and counseling psychology, and I've spent the better part of the past 20

1:04.3

years counseling with well over 30,000 Mormons who are doubting or Mormons who have left

1:09.6

the church to try and support them because it turns out it is very, very difficult to leave

1:15.2

a high-demand religion like Mormonism.

1:18.3

And so I am here today to make a presentation in response to a recent video that was put

1:24.4

up on YouTube with Terrell and Fiona Gibbons, two of the Mormon churches top apologists

1:30.4

in 2021.

...

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