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The Michael Shermer Show

143. Nicholas Christakis — Apollo’s Arrow: The Profound and Enduring Impact of Coronavirus on the Way We Live

The Michael Shermer Show

Michael Shermer

Dialogue, Science, Reason, Michaelshermer, Natural Sciences, Skeptic

4.4921 Ratings

🗓️ 17 November 2020

⏱️ 83 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Apollo’s Arrow offers a riveting account of the impact of the coronavirus pandemic as it swept through American society in 2020, and of how the recovery will unfold in the coming years. Drawing on momentous (yet dimly remembered) historical epidemics, contemporary analyses, and cutting-edge research from a range of scientific disciplines, bestselling author, physician, sociologist, and public health expert Nicholas A. Christakis explores what it means to live in a time of plague — an experience that is paradoxically uncommon to the vast majority of humans who are alive, yet deeply fundamental to our species. Featuring new, provocative arguments and vivid examples ranging across medicine, history, sociology, epidemiology, data science, and genetics, Apollo’s Arrow envisions what happens when the great force of a deadly germ meets the enduring reality of our evolved social nature.

Shermer and Christakis discuss:

  • the replication crisis in social science and medicine,
  • determining causality in science and medicine,
  • how we know smoking causes cancer and HIV causes AIDS, but vaccines do not cause autism and cell phones do not cause cancer,
  • randomized controlled trials and why they can’t be done to answer many medical questions,
  • natural experiments and the comparative method of testing hypotheses (e.g., comparing different countries differing responses to Covid-19),
  • the hindsight bias and the curse of knowledge in judging responses to pandemics after the fact,
  • looking back to January 2020, what should we have done?,
  • comparing Covid-19 to the Black Death, the Spanish Flu, and other pandemics,
  • bacteria vs. viruses, coronaviruses and their effects, and why viruses are so much harder to treat than bacteria,
  • Bill Gates’ TED talk warning in 2015 and why we didn’t heed it,
  • treatments: hydroxychloroquine, remdesivir, Vitamin D.

How civilization will change:

  • medical: coronavirus is here to stay — herd immunity naturally and through vaccines,
  • personal and public health: handshakes, hugs, and other human contact; masks, social distancing, hygiene,
  • long run healthier society (e.g., body temperatures have decreased from 98.6 to 97.9),
  • economics and business,
  • travel, conferences, meetings,
  • marriage, dating, sex, and home life,
  • entertainment, vacations, bars, and restaurants,
  • education and schools,
  • politics and society (and a better understanding of freedom and why it is restricted),
  • from pandemic to endemic.

Nicholas A. Christakis is a physician and sociologist who explores the ancient origins and modern implications of human nature. He directs the Human Nature Lab at Yale University, where he is the Sterling Professor of Social and Natural Science, in the Departments of Sociology, Medicine, Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, Statistics and Data Science, and Biomedical Engineering. He is the Co-Director of the Yale Institute for Network Science, the co-author of Connected, and the author of Blueprint.

Transcript

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0:00.0

Before I introduce today's guest, I want to tell you about our sponsor, the Great Courses.com.

0:05.4

The Great Courses is of course the teaching company's Great Courses, of which I've been a long time fan and user.

0:10.9

And now they have an app, you just download the free up on your phone you tap on it and you go to whatever

0:16.0

course you're interested in listening to I just this is my latest one I've been going

0:21.2

through native peoples of North America. This is lecture number 17 I'm up to now by Daniel Cobb, PhD.

0:28.0

The beautiful thing about the Great Courses Plus app is that you can skip around with lectures. You don't have to just kind of grind

0:33.8

through lecture after a lecture for an entire course if you decide you don't want

0:37.3

to listen to the whole thing. This particular course is 24 lectures and so like most courses I probably won't listen to every single lecture but this one I've been thinking about because of the whole conversation

0:49.2

national conversation on reparations for African Americans and if we go that route then Native Americans

0:55.6

certainly have a case to be made and this history is really disturbing

1:00.0

it's difficult to listen to because it's reality of what happened here in North America

1:06.4

So I think it's the kind of thing where knowledge is good before we make political decisions

1:11.6

But anyway that's not the point of this.

1:13.2

I just want to encourage you to log on to the Great Courses Plus.com

1:19.0

slash Salon, and then you get a free trial as a listener to my podcast the great courses

1:24.9

plus dot com slash salon and you get a free trial it's great so give it a shot

1:29.8

give it a try when you're driving working out doing chores walking

1:34.1

hiking whatever it's a great way to consume content all right thanks for

1:38.0

listening my guest today is Nicholas Christakis his new book is Apollo's Arrow, the profound and enduring impact of

1:46.5

coronavirus on the way we live.

1:50.5

Nicholas Christakis is a physician and sociologist who explores the ancient origins and modern implications of human nature.

1:58.0

He directs the Human Nature Lab at Yale University where he is the Sterling Professor of Social and Natural Science in the

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