Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories,

secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical

advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you

become a better informed, more critical thinker through long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers, even the occasional

rocket scientist, war correspondent, or arms dealer. And hey, if you're new to the show, or you want

to tell your friends about the show, and I always appreciate it when you do that, I suggest our

episode starter packs. These are collections of some of our favorite episodes on topics

like persuasion and negotiation, psychology and geopolitics, disinformation, China, North Korea,

crime and cults, and more. It'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show.

Just visit jordanharbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started.

Today on the show, everybody loves the story of the genius who wakes up from a dream and changes the world. Dmitriy Mendelev supposedly dreams the periodic table into existence, bolts up right in bed, and suddenly chemistry has a seating chart. Beautiful story. Also, apparently, mostly bullshit. The real story is less magical and a lot more useful. Madela was boxed in by a

textbook deadline. He had to cram the known elements into a limited space under pressure with

imperfect information, and that constraint helped him see the pattern everyone else had missed.

So today we're asking a question that sounds like something your boss says right before

ruining your weekend. What if constraints actually make us better?

Not all constraints, obviously. Some constraints are just bureaucracy with a necktie,

some are budget cuts wearing a fake TED Talk mustache, but the right constraints, limits,

deadlines, rules, friction, forced choices, those can sharpen thinking, expose nonsense,

and turn chaos into creativity.

My guest today, David Epstein, author of Range and the Sports Gene, which many of you have

probably read, and his new book is Inside the Box, How Constraints Make Us Better.

We'll discuss why too much freedom can make us stupid, how a company full of Apple Legends

...