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The Jordan Harbinger Show

1293: Abigail Marsh | How Fear Separates Saints from Psychopaths Part 2

The Jordan Harbinger Show

Jordan Harbinger

Education, Science, Business

4.8 • 12.3K Ratings

🗓️ 5 March 2026

⏱️ 65 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Psychopathy is treatable, altruism is contagious, and 'sociopath' is a word we should probably retire. Abigail Marsh makes the case here on part 2 of 2. [Find part 1 here!]

Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/1293

What We Discuss with Dr. Abigail Marsh:

  • Psychopathy isn't the life sentence people assume it is. Personality disorders like psychopathy and borderline are far more treatable than the popular narrative suggests, and many people with psychopathic traits actively want to change, recognizing their behavior patterns aren't working for them.
  • Most of the world's worst atrocities aren't committed by psychopaths — they're committed by groups of ordinary people who believe they're completely justified. The real danger isn't the remorseless loner; it's collective moral certainty that one side's aggression is righteous.
  • Fear is the secret bridge between altruism and psychopathy. Psychopaths don't process fear — their own or others' — while extreme altruists are hypersensitive to it. Same brain structure, different tuning, and that gap determines who rushes toward danger and who shrugs.
  • Our brains are survival machines, not accuracy machines — and negativity bias warps our view of humanity. Bad behavior is actually rare, but we encode it in high fidelity, leading us to wildly overestimate how selfish and dangerous other people really are.
  • Altruism creates ripple effects that reshape lives in ways you'd never predict. One kind response to a stranger — even an online troll — can shift someone's entire outlook. Well-being fuels generosity, and generosity fuels well-being, so start the cycle anywhere and watch it compound.
  • And much more... [This is part two of a two-part episode. Find part one here!]

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Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Coming up next on the Jordan Harbinger Show.

0:02.9

Most of the world's atrocities are not committed by psychopathic people.

0:06.2

They're committed by groups of people who, you know, have very different opinions about what is right and what is wrong.

0:11.4

And both believe that they're totally justified in aggression to make sure that their viewpoint wins out and the other one doesn't.

0:22.7

Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger.

0:25.0

On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's

0:28.1

most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact

0:32.2

your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better informed,

0:36.3

more critical thinker through long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks. From spies to CEOs, athletes to authors,

0:42.7

thinkers, to performers, even the occasional former cult member, mafia, enforcer, or drug

0:47.0

trafficker, maybe no former jihadi here and there. If you're new to the show or you want to

0:50.7

tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of some of our favorite episodes on topics like persuasion and

0:57.2

negotiation, psychology and geopolitics, disinformation, China, North Korea, crime and cults, and

1:02.6

more. That'll help listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit

1:06.3

Jordan Harbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started.

1:11.8

Today, part two with Dr. Abigail Marsh, we're talking psychopathy and altruism. Fascinating. If they haven't heard part

1:16.5

one yet, go back and do that. Otherwise, here we go with part two of our conversation with

1:20.6

Abigail Marsh. Do you foresee a time when neuroscience can predict altruistic or psychopathic tendencies?

1:29.3

You mentioned brain scans can't quite do it, but once fMRI fits into your hat, can you just

1:34.2

have kindergartners wear this for a week and be like, oh, watch out for Little Jordan.

1:38.6

The thing is lighting up a little bit in areas where it's not supposed to.

1:41.7

I mean, that was what people were going for for a long time, you know, the ability to detect

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