This is Mike Ganser from Aqueus, and this podcast is In the Loop, the Legion of Osiris podcasts.

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I'm Ben Sawyer, and this is the road to now.

Today's guest is Heidi Takah Heroda,

who is an assistant professor in the Institute for Advanced Study at Waseda University in Tokyo.

He wrote a book that's fantastic.

It's called It Spelling the Poor, Atlantic Seaboard States and the 19th century origins of American immigration policy, which was published last year by Oxford University Press.

This episode was exciting because Bob read this book twice

and was like, we've got to get had to get Haditaka on. And we spoke with him. He was in Japan.

And just this episode is so fantastic. As you'll hear, there are so many things about immigration

policy that we don't understand. And as you'll see, one of those things is the origins of it.

We tend to think about federal policy and immigration coming together in the late 1870s,

early 1880s, and the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882.

But as you'll hear from Hadidata, the origins of that policy actually traced back to state immigration policies in the previous decades.

It's a really a fantastic interview and we hope you enjoy it.

And now that the spring is here, there's a whole lot of opportunities to travel, be working in the yard, all those things.

And just can't recommend highly enough that you guys

check out Libro.fm. Libro is an audiobook company. They sponsored our show because we approach

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