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Let's talk about Sunstone for a bit.

So my understanding of Sunstone was started in the mid 70s by Scott Kinney and Peggy Fletcher

Stack and a couple other people started as a magazine and then it started doing the symposium

and it started really growing in the 80s.

So where does your brother come into that?

He came in, he started with Sunstone in 78.

And I should tell people who don't know Sunstone in 70.

Oh sorry not 70, that's wrong.

Go ahead.

Sunstone is a form of like, Mormon history, of Mormon art, of Mormon culture, of intellectual

Mormon, Mormon intellectual thought.

And so it was a place for us to be thoughtful and progressive and intellectual and figure

out true church history and it kind of came on the, you know, along with the Leonard

Arrington Camelot years of the church history, you know, Renaissance and the church trying

...