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Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories,

secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical

advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you

become a better informed, more critical thinker through long-form conversations with the variety

of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs,

athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, even the occasional rocket scientist, Russian chess,

grandmaster, or a legendary Hollywood actor. And if you're new to the show or you want to

tell your friends about the show, and I always appreciate it when you do that, I suggest our

episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on topics like

persuasion and negotiation, psychology, geopolitics, disinformation, China, North Korea, crime and cults, and more.

That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. Just visit

jordanharbinger.com slash start or search for us in your Spotify app to get started.

Today on the show, actor, director, and man who once threatened to shoot

the Cohen Brothers dog if they didn't cast him in Fargo, the legendary William H. Macy. You know him

from Fargo, Boogie Nights, shameless, and now Soul on Fire, where he plays famed Cardinals

announcer Jack Buck, who befriends a young burn victim in one of those rare but true stories that'll

make you cry, then feel strangely good about it. We explore why the best actors don't give a damn, what desperation

does for great art, and how Macy somehow only learned how to act after 30 years in the business.

It's a wide-ranging conversation about acting Hollywood, the business of creativity. It's

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