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Welcome to Gr Cooketorange, the podcast of me, Sarah Raven.

And today I'm joined by Gary, who you've met several times before now.

So Gary Newell is our senior horticultural buyer.

And I hope that you'll have gathered from the episodes that I've done with him before. He's quite a lot younger than me and he has quite a

different sort of outlook on gardening than me with sustainability absolutely kind of at its heart.

And I always love chatting to Gary because it makes me think about things

in a slightly different way. Anyway, today, we thought being sort of late summer into autumn,

it's a time where I personally think climbers become incredibly important to the glamour of a garden. Because a lot of the

sort of classic herbaceous perennials and sort of summer perennials, delphiniums and the roses and the

sweetbeats, all that kind of stuff is either looking tired or has actually gone over, whereas really

quite a lot of climbers are reaching their

peak. And so we thought it was a really good, relevant subject to this time of year as the

seasons are beginning to change. So, Gary, I thought we would do our list of 12, which people

seem to the feedback is that people love us to give them a very

potted list rather than too extensive. And so shall we run through the year and start with spring

and then move on to summer, water and winter? And so maybe you could kick us off with your

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