Welcome to the Making Sense Podcast. This is Sam Harris. Just a note to say that if you're

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Today I'll be speaking with Megan Phelps-Roper, who is the granddaughter of the infamous Fred Phelps,

who is the pastor of the infamous Westboro Baptist Church. You've seen the signs they

hold while picketing the funerals of dead soldiers, signs that read, God hates fags, or

thank God for dead soldiers, or thank God for AIDS. Megan grew up in this church, as did

the rest of her family. Most of her family remains in it. She has since left and is in a unique

position to bear witness to the power of religious belief, both in her own life and in the

lives of everyone she grew up with. I found her a fascinating conversation. I found her

a highly intelligent and seemingly very reliable witness to this sort of life experience, and

I hope you find our conversation as enjoyable as I did. One thing I should point out is that

it will seem highly enachronistic that we don't talk about the recent Supreme Court ruling

that made it legal for gays and lesbians to marry throughout the United States. We actually

spoke before that ruling came down. Also, I feel the need to apologize for the quality

of the audio. The more I get into podcasting, the more I am horrified by the quality of

the audio I've put out previously, but I assure you eventually things will be stable

on my end. Unfortunately, this was not such an occasion. I would fire my audio engineer,

...