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Welcome to Sceptical Sunday. I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. Today I'm here with Skeptical

Sunday co-host writer and researcher Nick Pell. On the Jordan Harbinger show, decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact your own life and those around you. Our mission is to help you become a better-informed, more critical thinker. During the week, we have long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks from spies to CEOs, athletes, authors, thinkers, and performers. On Sundays, though, it's skeptical Sunday, where a rotating guest co-host and I break down a topic you may have never thought about and debunk common misconceptions about it. Topics such as circumcision, sovereign citizens, e-commerce scams, diet supplements, the lottery, ear-candling, self-help cults, and more. And if you're new to the show,

or you want to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our favorite episodes on persuasion and negotiation, psychology, disinformation, junk science, crime and cults, and more. That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything we do here on the show. just visit jordan harbinger.com slash start, or search for us in your Spotify app to get started. It sucks being behind on your bills. One reason it sucks is that you have to deal with debt collectors. If you've ever been behind on payments, you know all about the sick feeling you get in your stomach worrying about these debt collectors. You get letters in the mail, your phone rings at all hours with people who only speak back after you say hello three times. They talk to you about legal action,

charge-offs, maybe even the scariest word of all, garnishment. Talking to a debt collector is about

as fun as getting a root canal. The whole process can feel really intimidating, even if you have

every intention of paying back the money, but you just can't right now. One of the reasons that it can be so scary is that you just don't know where the process is going. You're positive it's going to get worse. You're just not sure how. What is the worst case scenario you're looking at if you have debt collectors breathing down your neck? What are your rights? Can they really take you to court? More to the point, will they? Are they bluffing or is your catastrophic anxiety actually warranted? Here to help me garnish this episode with some actual expertise is writer and researcher and former deadbeat Nick Pell. Nick, how you doing today? Emphasis on the former. Yeah. Doing great, man. Really fired up to talk about this topic because it astonishes me how little people know about this and how scared they are over nothing, really.

Just so people know, one of the reasons I ask Nick to help me out is you have some interesting experiences with debt collectors, yeah?

Yeah, I've had them owing me money.

You've told me about this in the past, but, and trust me, guys, there's more here than just Nick bragging about pulling an Uno reverse card on debt collectors. So let's start at the beginning. What happens when you stop paying your credit card bills for whatever reason? At first, nothing. After you're 30 days late, you're going to get a warning and your credit score is going to take a significant hit.

It might be over 100 points depending on where your credit score is.

If you keep not paying, you're going to get more attempts at contact from the credit card company.

And where things really begin to change is when they do what's called a charge off.

So what is a charge off?

...