meta_pixel
Tapesearch Logo
Log in
The Michael Shermer Show

118. Stuart Russell — Human Compatible: Artificial Intelligence and the Problem of Control

The Michael Shermer Show

Michael Shermer

Dialogue, Science, Reason, Michaelshermer, Natural Sciences, Skeptic

4.4921 Ratings

🗓️ 2 June 2020

⏱️ 82 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In the popular imagination, superhuman artificial intelligence is an approaching tidal wave that threatens not just jobs and human relationships, but civilization itself. Conflict between humans and machines is seen as inevitable and its outcome all too predictable. In this groundbreaking book, distinguished AI researcher Stuart Russell argues that this scenario can be avoided, but only if we rethink AI from the ground up. Russell begins by exploring the idea of intelligence in humans and in machines. He describes the near-term benefits we can expect, from intelligent personal assistants to vastly accelerated scientific research, and outlines the AI breakthroughs that still have to happen before we reach superhuman AI. He also spells out the ways humans are already finding to misuse AI, from lethal autonomous weapons to viral sabotage. If the predicted breakthroughs occur and superhuman AI emerges, we will have created entities far more powerful than ourselves. How can we ensure they never, ever, have power over us? Russell suggests that we can rebuild AI on a new foundation, according to which machines are designed to be inherently uncertain about the human preferences they are required to satisfy. Such machines would be humble, altruistic, and committed to pursue our objectives, not theirs. This new foundation would allow us to create machines that are provably deferential and provably beneficial. Shermer and Russell also discuss:

  • natural intelligence vs. artificial intelligence
  • “g” in human intelligence vs. G in AGI (Artificial General Intelligence)
  • the values alignment problem
  • Hume’s “Is-Ought” naturalistic fallacy as it applies to AI values vs. human values
  • regulating AI
  • Russell’s response to the arguments of AI apocalypse skeptics Kevin Kelly and Steven Pinker
  • the Chinese social control AI system and what it could lead to
  • autonomous vehicles, weapons, and other systems and how they can be hacked
  • AI and the hacking of elections, and
  • what keeps Stuart up at night.

Stuart Russell is a professor of Computer Science and holder of the Smith-Zadeh Chair in Engineering at the University of California, Berkeley. He has served as the Vice-Chair of the World Economic Forum’s Council on AI and Robotics and as an advisor to the United Nations on arms control. He is a Fellow of the American Association for Artificial Intelligence, the Association for Computing Machinery, and the American Association for the Advancement of Science. He is the author (with Peter Norvig) of the definitive and universally acclaimed textbook on AI, Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach.

Listen to Science Salon via Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play Music, Stitcher, iHeartRadio, and TuneIn.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:16.3

Before I introduce today's guest, I want to tell you about the latest deal with our sponsor, which is the Great Courses Plus, which is a app created by the Teaching Company and the great courses now instead of purchasing individual courses and grinding through all 20 lectures or 30 lectures or whatever. I've created two courses myself.

0:25.0

Along those lines now you can buy through the app. You can subscribe to the program and

0:31.6

listen to any lectures you want,

0:33.0

thousands and thousands of lectures from lots and lots of different courses.

0:36.0

You just tap on the app it opens, like that.

0:39.0

And like for example, I was just listening to a course on my George Orwell lectures.

0:46.7

I was listening to a course on geography and understanding cultural and human geography. And here's a lecture I'm halfway through called the problem with geographical

0:58.0

determines.

0:59.0

These are the same.

1:00.0

It starts off like that.

1:02.0

And it's great because you know sometimes I get interested in the course and I want to listen to all the lectures sometimes I get bored and I want to try somebody new or I just bounce around and that's the beauty of it. So much like other systems, the subscription

1:15.3

system is great for that because you have just this rich menu of options. So please go to our sponsors here.

1:25.3

The deal is you get a free access

1:29.6

to all the lectures for a certain period of time time if you do it through our website which is the

1:37.1

set up for our sponsor here the Great Courses Plus.com slash Salon. So to get your free trial to the Great

1:45.7

Courses Plus program go to the Great Courses Plus dot com slash Salon. Thanks for listening.

1:54.0

This week's guest is Stuart Russell.

1:56.5

His new book is Human compatible Artificial Intelligence and the problem of control.

2:03.8

This is Stewart's second book.

2:06.4

His first is the classic artificial intelligence,

2:09.2

a modern approach.

2:10.1

It's the, pretty much the Bible, as it were, textbook of artificial intelligence.

...

Please login to see the full transcript.

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Michael Shermer, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of Michael Shermer and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.

Copyright © Tapesearch 2025.