It's damaging, I think, for young people especially, to look at celebrities for the answer, for the fame, for the money, for the followers, for the big house, and realize when they get there, if they do get there, that it was all a sham. Turn off your phone.

Stop listening to this.

You're addicted to this thing.

Maybe it's all right.

Maybe it's okay.

I'm addicted to it too. I'm sort of hoping this is an intermediate

phase where it feels like we're addicted to screens and maybe in the future we'll be

in the screens and it will all feel a bit more natural.

Well, natural is not the right word for that abomination I just described,

which I suppose is the metaverse.

It's Emma Ganon, she's on today, She's a famous writer. She's actually younger than me by two months, according to Wikipedia, and has already written a whole bunch of books.

She's probably best known for her book The multi-hyphon life about

working less and creating more and her podcast Control Alt Delete where she

looks at technology internet internet and philosophy.

So do check that out.

Big names on there, including Alan de Bodon,

although he's English, so it's just Alan de Botan.

And to Fern Cotton, that's another another one English people that Americans or other

non-English people might not know of but they're great. Her latest book

Disconnected was a great read for me.

I was on a long plane journey from London to Buenos Aires

to see my girlfriend's family, and we're talking like 20 hours.

...