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Within Reason

#116 Peter Godfrey Smith - Animal Consciousness: What Can We Know?

Within Reason

Alex J O'Connor

Philosophy, Society & Culture

4.92.2K Ratings

🗓️ 10 August 2025

⏱️ 115 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Peter Godfrey-Smith is an Australian philosopher of science and writer, who is currently Professor of History and Philosophy of Science at the University of Sydney. Buy his books here.


Timestamps:

0:00 How Many Times Has the Brain Independently Evolved? 4:36 What is a Nervous System? 7:12 The Differences Between the Human and Animal Brains 13:40 What Does an Octopus Brain Look Like? 25:21 What is it Like to be an Octopus? 35:48 Are the Mind and Body Distinct? 42:46 Panpsychism: Is Everything Conscious? 55:53 How Do Experiences Combine Into One Consciousness? 01:05:08 Which Animals Feel Pain? What is it Like? 01:16:51 Should We Make Shrimp Farming an Ethical Priority? 01:29:22 Animal Science and Animal Foods 01:35:59 The Ethics of Killing Animals 01:52:13 Are Octopuses Playful?

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Transcript

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0:00.0

How many times did the brain independently evolve?

0:05.4

It depends what counts as a brain.

0:08.1

Nervous systems themselves probably evolved just once, although it's not completely clear.

0:14.0

It may have been twice.

0:15.9

There's a huge collection of animals that includes us and insects and octopuses and earthworms and almost

0:22.9

everyone who have a nervous system that comes from a single invention of that thing probably

0:31.9

sometime around 600 million years ago or so. Now it may be that there was a second invention of the nervous

0:40.1

system, which, whose descendants we only see today in comb jellies, those little light bulb-like

0:48.1

jellyfish that have beautiful, colorful filaments that glow, really, along their sides. They look like jellyfish, but they're not

0:56.9

ordinary jellyfish. They're quite far from other jellyfish and other animals, it seems. And it's

1:04.2

not impossible that they invented the whole thing, the nervous system, separately for themselves,

1:10.0

and that there were two origins.

1:12.6

Now, that's still a minority view, as I understand it.

1:15.7

And let's just proceed by talking in terms of the invention of the nervous system.

1:20.4

Probably about 600 million years ago, probably in a jellyfish-looking creature, radially organized rather than left-right symmetrical like us,

1:33.3

certainly marine. And that wasn't a brain. Brains themselves come on the scene later.

1:41.3

I mean, as I say, it depends what counts as a brain. Let's talk about a

1:44.2

brain as a, you know, significant concentration of neurons in a sort of head-like or front

1:51.1

region of the animal that has a kind of central centralizing control. I'm not sure even quite,

1:59.5

you know, what the right number is for that.

2:01.2

It would be several times, maybe three, maybe half a dozen,

2:06.5

something like that, again, depending on the boundaries.

...

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