#116 Peter Godfrey Smith - Animal Consciousness: What Can We Know?
Within Reason
Alex J O'Connor
4.9 • 2.2K Ratings
🗓️ 10 August 2025
⏱️ 115 minutes
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Summary
Peter Godfrey-Smith is an Australian philosopher of science and writer, who is currently Professor of History and Philosophy of Science at the University of Sydney. Buy his books here.
Timestamps:
0:00 How Many Times Has the Brain Independently Evolved? 4:36 What is a Nervous System? 7:12 The Differences Between the Human and Animal Brains 13:40 What Does an Octopus Brain Look Like? 25:21 What is it Like to be an Octopus? 35:48 Are the Mind and Body Distinct? 42:46 Panpsychism: Is Everything Conscious? 55:53 How Do Experiences Combine Into One Consciousness? 01:05:08 Which Animals Feel Pain? What is it Like? 01:16:51 Should We Make Shrimp Farming an Ethical Priority? 01:29:22 Animal Science and Animal Foods 01:35:59 The Ethics of Killing Animals 01:52:13 Are Octopuses Playful?
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | How many times did the brain independently evolve? |
| 0:05.4 | It depends what counts as a brain. |
| 0:08.1 | Nervous systems themselves probably evolved just once, although it's not completely clear. |
| 0:14.0 | It may have been twice. |
| 0:15.9 | There's a huge collection of animals that includes us and insects and octopuses and earthworms and almost |
| 0:22.9 | everyone who have a nervous system that comes from a single invention of that thing probably |
| 0:31.9 | sometime around 600 million years ago or so. Now it may be that there was a second invention of the nervous |
| 0:40.1 | system, which, whose descendants we only see today in comb jellies, those little light bulb-like |
| 0:48.1 | jellyfish that have beautiful, colorful filaments that glow, really, along their sides. They look like jellyfish, but they're not |
| 0:56.9 | ordinary jellyfish. They're quite far from other jellyfish and other animals, it seems. And it's |
| 1:04.2 | not impossible that they invented the whole thing, the nervous system, separately for themselves, |
| 1:10.0 | and that there were two origins. |
| 1:12.6 | Now, that's still a minority view, as I understand it. |
| 1:15.7 | And let's just proceed by talking in terms of the invention of the nervous system. |
| 1:20.4 | Probably about 600 million years ago, probably in a jellyfish-looking creature, radially organized rather than left-right symmetrical like us, |
| 1:33.3 | certainly marine. And that wasn't a brain. Brains themselves come on the scene later. |
| 1:41.3 | I mean, as I say, it depends what counts as a brain. Let's talk about a |
| 1:44.2 | brain as a, you know, significant concentration of neurons in a sort of head-like or front |
| 1:51.1 | region of the animal that has a kind of central centralizing control. I'm not sure even quite, |
| 1:59.5 | you know, what the right number is for that. |
| 2:01.2 | It would be several times, maybe three, maybe half a dozen, |
| 2:06.5 | something like that, again, depending on the boundaries. |
... |
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