So when it comes to the question of who gets into college, how do we determine what is fair?

And this is a question that does keep coming back to the Supreme Court where the issue is what role should race play?

Does fair mean that race should play no part whatsoever in the equation?

Leave it up just to grades and test scores.

Where history shows that on the whole, Asians and whites do score better than blacks and Latinos?

Or does fair mean let's find a way to crack the door open a little wider for blacks and Latinos in recognition of their historical challenges that are relevant in these cases?

And also to bring them in the name of diversity for the good of the whole university.

And this is all in the spirit of what is known as affirmative action.

And when it comes to fair, what does the Constitution have to say about these questions?

Well that sounds like the makings for a debate. So let's have it.

Yes or no to this question. The Equal Protection Clause forbids racial preferences in state university admissions.

A debate from Intelligent Squared US in partnership with the National Constitution Center.

We are at the Kaufman Music Center in New York City with four superbly qualified debaters who will argue for and against the motion the Equal Protection Clause forbids racial preferences in state university admissions.

As always our debate goes in three rounds and as always the audience votes to choose the winner and only one side wins.

Let's meet the team arguing for the motion. First ladies and gentlemen Roger Clay.

Welcome Roger. You are a president general council of the Center for Equal Opportunity.

You served in the Reagan and Bush administrations and you have argued that affirmative action is actually at odds with the civil rights movement.

I want to ask you is that always the case or what if we went back 50 or 60 years what would you have said?

Well I think that the original meaning of affirmative action which was taking positive steps to get rid of discrimination was a good idea back then and it's still a good idea.

But racial preferences which is the specific kind of affirmative action that we're talking about tonight was a bad idea then and certainly a bad idea now.

And the point to your be arguing tonight and tell us who your partner is in that argument.

It's lovely and talented Stuart Taylor who is with the Brookings Institution and the author of the book Miss Match.

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