That's the devaluation of life. That's what's hurt us in so many different areas.

Well, let's start setting the stage for a little bit because we want to talk about Operation Underground Railroad.

So as you're going through this career, was it just time for you to retire?

I mean, did you max out on what you good from retirement or did you say, I've had enough, I got to go do something else.

What was your decision on pulling the pin?

Well, I think we all got to a point or get to a point where you kind of know you're done policing.

But I wasn't done serving.

And so that's where I was, that's where I was kind of conflicted.

And since 2006, I've been in kind of this human trafficking realm.

I worked with a group international justice mission.

And I was a contractor with them.

So I did a lot of work in Southeast Asia, infiltrating organizations and bars and nightclubs and finding traffic victims.

So I did that for many years. And then in 2016, I got hooked up with Operation Underground Railroad.

And so I was doing work with them on a contract basis.

So I would go to any number of countries and do cases and stuff like that.

So in about 2000 or 2022, late 2021, we started talking and they needed a director of special operations.

And so it kind of worked out where I said, okay, it's time.

I can go do I can go do this and still still serve still have a mission and be a part of a fantastic, fantastic organization.

Hey, so let's set context for this just, but just out of curiosity, you've been looking at this subject for a long time.

What are the top five worst countries for this?

Um, you know, shoot top five worst countries.

Because everybody thinks about things like Thailand, you know,

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