1111: Jay Dobyns | Undercover with the Hells Angels Part One

The Jordan Harbinger Show

Jordan Harbinger

Education, Science, Business

4.8 • 12.3K Ratings

🗓️ 4 February 2025

⏱️ 58 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

How did former ATF agent Jay Dobyns spend years undercover with the Hells Angels and live to tell the tale? Listen to this two-parter to find out! [Pt. 1/2]

What We Discuss with Jay Dobyns:

Jay Dobyns was shot and nearly killed just four days into his ATF career, but rather than quitting, he used this experience to build credibility and learn valuable lessons about how quickly situations can turn violent in law enforcement.
The ATF's undercover program was considered elite among law enforcement agencies, with ATF agents being particularly skilled at getting "down in the weeds" of criminal investigations due to their backgrounds in local law enforcement rather than specialized fields.
Jay explains that successful undercover work is like being a salesman where "the product is me" — it requires building genuine trust and relationships while knowing you'll eventually have to betray that trust, making it psychologically challenging work.
To establish credibility in criminal circles, Jay and his team would create elaborate "street theater" — staged criminal scenarios with other undercover agents that allowed suspects to witness what appeared to be real criminal activity rather than just hearing stories about it.
Here, we learn how complex and sophisticated undercover work can be, highlighting valuable lessons about building trust and credibility through actions rather than words — and there's much more to come in part two later this week!
And much more — be sure to hear the second half of this conversation here later this week!

Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/1111

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Coming up next on the Jordan Harbinger Show.
0:03.1	Those groups are inherently paranoid.
0:06.6	They're paranoid for a reason.
0:08.0	That paranoia keeps them out of prison.
0:09.9	They're traditionally untrusting groups of people.
0:13.7	So how do you build that trust?
0:16.1	For me, I was a salesman.
0:18.3	That's the way I looked at my job.
0:20.1	I was a salesman. That's the way I looked at my job. I was a salesman.
0:21.0	My product was me.
0:26.3	Welcome to the show.
0:27.4	I'm Jordan Harbinger.
0:28.6	On the Jordan Harbinger show, we decode the stories, secrets, and skills of the world's
0:31.9	most fascinating people and turn their wisdom into practical advice that you can use to impact
0:36.4	your own life and those around you.
0:38.5	Our mission is to help you become a better informed, more critical thinker
0:41.5	through long-form conversations with a variety of amazing folks, from spies to CEOs,
0:45.9	athletes, authors, thinkers, performers, even the occasional gold smuggler,
0:49.5	economic hitman, former jihadi, or extreme athlete.
0:52.5	And if you're new to the show or you want to tell your friends about the show, I suggest our episode starter packs. These are collections of our
0:57.8	favorite episodes on topics like persuasion and negotiation, psychology, geopolitics, disinformation,
1:03.4	China, North Korea, crime and cults, and more. That'll help new listeners get a taste of everything
	...

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