Hello and welcome to Catholic Answers Live on this Friday afternoon, maybe here on the

other side of the date line it's a Saturday morning wherever you are whenever you are

we're happy you're here.

Thanks for taking the time with us.

I'm Psy Kell at your host and on Fridays sometimes we try to have a little bit of fun do

something a little bit unusual with the thought and mind that somebody out there is stuck in

traffic trying to get home on a Friday afternoon and this would probably be a good time to

be maybe a little more chipper and fun than usual and help us do that.

Joe Heshmire is our guest.

Joe Heshmire, of course, apologists here at Catholic Answers and the author of a whole

bunch of great books including the early church was the Catholic church also I must say

this every time he's on now the proprietor of a wonderful podcast called shameless

popery which you can find at shameless joe.com.

Joe Heshmire, thanks for being with us.

My pleasure.

Is that really you?

I understand why you're saying that it is me in a way you know this is the this is not

a pipe whatever that French painting by René Marguerite you know the the famous painted

of a pipe and underneath in French it says this is not a pipe it's not a pipe it's a

painted of a pipe well in the same way this is like a scape image of me and the sound

of my voice right that's right and we so we're living in a world where illusion and reality

mix very very easily and you know you can even when you watch a movie do you do the thing

...