Hello, everyone. This is JVL here with my best friend, Sarah Longwell, publisher of the bulwark, Sarah.

My guy. So, you know, I just said to you 30 seconds ago that we were going to start by talking about your Sam Harris podcast. Okay, I'll hold on to that. We will start by talking about your Sam Harris podcast. You and Tim went on the Sam Harris podcast. That was really great. And it's good of you guys to go because he called me first and asked me to go. And I said, you know, I just can't make it. And he said, well, I guess I'll just have to get Tim and Sarah instead. So it's good of you guys to step up.

It's funny that you're doing.

You're like, oh, the JVL erasure over and over and over again.

What is a JVL?

First of all, you do this to yourself because you don't want to talk to people.

I do podcasts all the time. Okay. I'm sorry. I don't do to talk to people. I do podcasts all the time.

Okay.

I'm sorry. I don't do TV because TV doesn't help the bulwark. That's what I don't do. I'm starting to agree with that more and more. Wait, one thing I, all right, I'm going to have to do it after the paywall because I don't think I can just put it on Maine. but I'm going to tell you something about something somebody told me about you that is going to make you so happy. But I will just say, as a broad matter, this person was saying to me, I love JVL so much, but he's like, he's like a secret. He's like elusive. Like you can't, you can't find him. And I was like, I was doing this exact thing where I was like, oh, really? I answer every fucking email that comes to me from

anybody in the world. I was like JVL feels chronically, uh, like abused by the fact that Tim and I

get like TV people treatment and you get writer treatment. But you know what? You're the better, you have the better medium. You have the more fervent fan base. I'm on YouTube. YouTube counts for something. I did a million YouTube views yesterday. I know. We, I yes. It's not like I don't exist. It's not like I'm Nick Katagio. You're the beating heart. You're the beating heart of the bulwark. But just to get away from your, this for one second, I will say people should listen to the Sam Harris thing. They should. It's a very good. It's a very good podcast, actually. Well, it's funny to be interviewed by somebody who, like, is zooming out on us as opposed to all of us the way we talk to each other. But a good podcast. I just mean it's a great conversation with the two of you. I don't listen to Sam's show regularly, so I'm not passing. I'm sure it is a great podcast. I'm not passing judgment either way. I mean that this particular episode with you and Tim, anybody who likes you guys should,

including me, should go listen to it.

It's very good. way. I mean that this particular episode with you and Tim, anybody who likes you guys,

should, including me, should go listen to it. It's very good. Part of the reason it was good

is that I think nobody asks us that often, especially together. Like, so what is, how did all

of this start? You know, what did you do? And I think that, um,

we told this story a lot in the beginning. And sometimes we get a lot of comments, you know,

one of my complaints where you get Sarah being like grumpy the way is when people are like,

Sarah sounds like she just can't let go of her Republican roots. And I'm always like,

or maybe this is just my analysis based on listening to voters many times a week. And it has nothing to do with my Republican roots. Because if people had been here since the beginning, they would have heard us churn over there. They're like, they have not reckoned with what they've done. I'm like, have you read Tim wrote a whole book about it. I've been listening. Here's the thing I see all the time.

I've been listening to Tim's podcast for three weeks now.

And these people have never reckoned with their Republican.

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