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The Counsel of Trent

#1053 - 5 Popes Who Denied the Papacy (DEBUNKED)

The Counsel of Trent

Catholic Answers

Religion & Spirituality

4.82.4K Ratings

🗓️ 2 July 2025

⏱️ 16 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In this episode Trent refutes five cases of Popes who allegedly denied the papacy. Pope Peter: Defending the Church's Most Distinctive Doctrine in a Time of Crisis https://shop.catholic.com/pope-peter-defending-the-churchs-most-distinctive-doctrine-in-a-time-of-crisis/

Transcript

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0:00.0

The papacy is Catholicism's most distinctive doctrine, but some critics say that even some

0:05.0

popes have denied that Christ gave us a church whose visible head is the successor of St. Peter.

0:10.8

So in today's episode, we'll debunk five pieces of fake news when it comes to the idea that a pope

0:16.2

said nope to the papacy. But before we do that, I hope you will say yes to hitting the subscribe

0:22.1

button and visiting us at trendhornpodcast.com to help us keep creating great content and keeping

0:27.5

it sponsor free. So let's start with number one. Pope Leo the 14th says the rock is Christ,

0:32.9

not Peter. Back in May, I saw this article from Anglican Inc. saying, Pope Leo the 14th drops papal supremacy,

0:40.0

urging full communion with all Christians. Of course, Catholics want everyone to belong to Christ's one

0:45.7

holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, so of course we want full communion with all Christians.

0:50.9

But Pope Leo did not deny the Catholic Church's divine authority. The article quotes the

0:55.7

Pope saying in his inaugural homily, the rock is Christ, and then says that this is, quote,

1:01.1

a significant departure from conventional Catholic interpretation, which identifies Peter as the rock

1:06.9

on which Jesus built the church. But this article assumes that Pope Leo is saying the rock

1:12.1

in Matthew 16, upon which the church is built is Christ rather than Peter. But in the Pope's

1:18.2

homily, it's clear he was talking about another scripture passage. Pope Leo said, the apostle

1:24.0

Peter himself tells us that Jesus, quote, is the stone that was rejected by you,

1:28.9

the builders, and has become the cornerstone, Acts 411. Moreover, if the rock is Christ, Peter must

1:35.9

shepherd the flock without ever yielding to the temptation to be an autocrat, lording it over those

1:41.7

entrusted to him. Catholics don't think that Peter is the only rock or the only foundation of the church.

1:47.9

Scripture itself uses multiple metaphors to describe the church's foundation.

1:52.1

Ephesians 220 describes, quote, the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone. Many symbols in

2:02.4

scripture can have more than one meaning, including the rock of Matthew 16. The catechism says,

...

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