The death stairs that we got going in were far more intense going out.

If you have money and lots of lawyers and lots of popularity, just this is different for you.

Hello and welcome to the best case worst case. This is Jim Clemente, retired FBI profiler,

former New York City prosecutor and writer producer on CBS's Criminal Minds.

And with me today via electronics is...

Hi everybody, it's franceyhakes, former state and federal prosecutor.

And Jim, we should say right off the top since we've been in the studio together for a few weeks

where the sound is fantastic that we are both remotely located and just making do

because we wanted to bring our listeners an episode for Christmas week.

That's right. And it's the holiday season so we're hoping that everybody is out there as safe and healthy and happy

and you know if not we hope you're working towards it.

That's right.

So today, francey, I'd like to talk to you about one of your cases. Do you have one in mind?

I do, Jim. I love it when you interview me. I'm always slightly anxious about it.

Like, do I know everything yet?

I might be able to ask you questions that you're not prepared for. That's what you want to know.

That's right. I always worry about that. But I am ready to have a case.

Okay. Well, where were you in your career when this case came to you?

Well, I was what you might call a seasoned prosecutor. I was an assistant US attorney.

So I was a federal prosecutor. I'd been a state prosecutor for six years and a federal prosecutor for about five

when this case came in back in 2007.

Wow, 2007.

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