Welcome to Public Health On Call, a podcast from the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health,

where we bring evidence, experience, and perspective to make sense of today's leading health challenges.

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Hey listeners, it's Lindsay Smith-Rogers.

What is the tobacco endgame?

Today, Elene Goetheels, a fellow at the Center for Moral Ambition,

speaks to Dr. Josh Sharfstein about her transition from selling insurance and fast food

to taking on the tobacco industry. She's an author of a recent paper calling for the

normalization of the idea of ending the tobacco industry altogether. Let's listen.

Elin Guttles, thank you so much for joining me today in public health on call. How are you?

Good, I'm good, just sunny shining, so I'm happy, finally. Very good. I think it might help.

Before we get into tobacco, just to introduce yourself to our audience.

Yeah. So I'm Eileen. I'm Belgian. I live in Brussels. And I used to work in advertising.

I used to work there for over 14 years now. And two years ago, decided that selling or making car campaigns or insurance campaigns

or fast food campaigns was not the legacy that I wanted to leave on this planet.

And decided to, in a way, transition my career or try to transition my career into something

that is more meaningful.

It was more of a life question I was having at the time.

But then I found an organization that was founded by the Dutch historian Ruther Brechmann.

And the organization is called to School for Moral Ambition.

And there they offer people in what they call bullshit jobs,

...