Give me a better than most people probably already have working definition of perfectionism.

Well, first off, perfectionism is kind of a deeply ingrained personality style that people use to kind of navigate their path through life.

So we talk about it as a way of being in the world, and it's kind of the sense that at the core, I'm not enough, that there's something that is flawed, defective, I'm not, I'm just not enough

either to have worth or to be acceptable to other people, to fit, to belong, to have a place in the

world. And so it's a way of trying to navigate that because when we have that sense of being flawed and defective where I don't fit, we don't just typically say, okay, that's the way it is. We try to do something about it. We try to rectify it. One of the ways that a person can do that, and they learn this

often very early in life, is that if I am perfect or if I can appear to others is perfect,

then I will be acceptable to them. I will be loved. I will be cared for, I will belong, I will matter to other people,

and by virtue of that, I will have worth. It will repair this sense of being flawed and

defective at the core. So what it is, is this sort of way of navigating the world of trying to conceal imperfections,

trying, yes, to be perfect in tasks and activities in that, but really it's more of a drive

not to be imperfect.

So that's kind of what, that's kind of the way we understand.

So the, this typical sort of upbringing of somebody that grows up to be a perfectionist,

is love contingent on performance?

And that can be an element of it.

I think what we talk about in terms of the development

would be a sense of, this comes from the attachment literature

that people have probably heard the term before, but also some writing,

in Solzac Analytic writing, on the development of this off by Heinz Cohit.

And it's the notion that very early on in our lives, we develop a sense of who we are and a sense of the way other people work in our lives.

And so very often, the very early kind of lives of individuals who develop this flawed sense

of self or this not fitting is there's what we call an asyncrony or a non-attombment.

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