Coming up on this episode.

How do you empathize with a mass killer, right?

But to continue to dismiss this person as a sicko

also says, I'm no longer curious about why you did this, the events that led up to you doing this,

I'm closing down all my curiosity, I'm going to label you as a villain, which you are, and a sicko, and I have no further, you know,

recon to do on this.

And that's where I say, wait a second, that doesn't seem helpful.

That seems like this thing is going to repeat itself.

If somebody says, wait, why are these people doing this all of a sudden and why is it happening so often and how can we prevent it as a culture? Welcome to the Building Story Brand Podcast, where we believe if you can fuse,

you'll lose, Noise is the enemy and creating a clear message is the best way to grow your business.

I'm your host Donald Miller.

I'm joined by my co-host J. J. J. J. J.

we said last week that this week we were going to talk about workspace.

We did. That is like how your

workspace should be laid out and all that kind of stuff to create the best results.

We're not going to talk about that. No, we're not. And the reason is we brought in

Dr. Lee Norton.

And Lee Norton is a, I think she's a clinical psychologist,

I feel bad for not knowing that, but she does a lot in the court system.

So she is the person who went in, for instance,

in high profile cases like one she actually did Timothy McVeigh.

So she spent six hours alone with Timothy McVeigh

...