The book is called Melting Pot or Civil War, Neil Ferguson who we really like on this show,

but the choice between Melting Pot or Civil War may seem like a stark one.

Salim persuasively argues that without a radical reform of the US immigration system

our already polarized society might very well come apart at the seams, which is a pretty dire warning.

High praise from JD Vance author of Hillbilly Elegy as well for Melting Pot or Civil War,

a son of immigrants makes the case against open borders. So, Rihon Salama joins us the author

of Melting Pot or Civil War, a son of immigrants makes the case against open borders.

Rihon, welcome to the program.

Thanks for having me.

Then you're getting a lot of attention for this book. I'm glad because this is a topic we cover a lot.

What made you write the book?

Honestly, I just became so alarmed by the ranker'sness of our political discourse

and how much it seemed as though people were talking past each other when they talk about

immigration. You have this tremendous self-righteousness on one side and on the other side,

you have people who seem as though they're demonizing immigrants and immigration.

And I just couldn't recognize myself in that conversation. So, I wanted to add some common sense.

It's funny. I've been thinking about political science a lot. That was my field in school and my

youngest is taking all those classes. You take political theory classes and they're all about

the different political systems. I'd love to have a political theory class. It's all about

how to whip up mobs and how to get them unwipped up because it seems like the

the tenor of the conversation is just shouting at each other.

There is a lot of truth to that. Whipping up fear and anger is a great strategy politically in

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