And that was very difficult for her to testify. She was 10 years old, she had to go into

the courtroom, swear to tell the truth, sit in the witness stand and stare at her father.

How the different members of the law enforcement and justice system, how they get involved in

the case is different. And it can have really different effects on different people.

Hello and welcome to Best Case Worse Case. This is your host Jim Clemente, former New York City

prosecutor, retired FBI profiler, writer producer on CBS's Criminal Minds and cohost of Real Crime Profile.

And my cohost on Best Case Worse Case is my colleague and great friend, Francy Hakes.

Hi, thanks Jim, so glad to be here and starting a new venture and podcast with you.

Well that's great and I'm really excited about you being here with me and the fact that we're

doing this Best Case Worse Case together. The fact is, Francy and I have worked together

a long time. We've worked in the same field for many many years. We didn't get to work together

personally until later in our careers and we do consulting on cases now together as well as work

in the entertainment industry. And a lot of people don't know it and I know you don't like to

institute your own horn but you recently testified in front of Congress about crimes against

children cases and that's really awesome. So tell us a little bit about your career.

I'm a former state and federal prosecutor and for my whole long career I have specialized

in crimes against children both online and in the real world. And I think to your point,

cases can be best case, worst case, all at once. And I think that's because by the very nature

of child abuse, for example, or murder, these cases are worse for someone.

Yes. And I think it's an interesting perspective while obviously the most important thing is to give

voice to the victims who often don't have a voice in the justice system, either they've been

murdered or their children. And we have to speak for them. I think it's also interesting to

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