This is episode 55 of the Swallier Pride Podcast and today we are back with part two with

Dr. Pam Smith and I love this episode. I love this part of this of the episode I recorded with her. I wanted to make it a two-part

series because I think after you listen to this you'll understand there's there's a lot in here.

And I think for a lot of kind of the

beginner clinicians or even the old school clinicians whatever you

howver you identify I think there's a lot of really good nuggets in here and

kind of one of the big things that Pam Harps on is you know don't let yourself get old

school so even if you are an oldie, don't be an oldie, okay? You know, she gives a lot of good

experiences and things that she tells her students about how is just so important to stay

up on the research and to be constantly evolving.

And also what I do love is that she talks about,

you know, what can we do if we don't have access to instrumentation?

And I don't want you to think for one second

that I'm lifting my foot up off the gas

of driving this instrumentation bus forward because I'm absolutely not but you

know I don't know what the circumstances are of why people can't get instrumentation

I just would never work in one of those places but that's me. But anyways what can you do and so

Pam goes into a lot of things that you know we can and we absolutely cannot do without

instrumentation.

And a lot of it comes down to patients' wishes and patients' rights and really how to have

those risk-benefit conversations with your patients.

So the reason I wanted to tell you all that is because she includes a lot of really good,

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