meta_pixel
Tapesearch Logo
Log in
Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

040: Uncovering Techniques (Part 2) — The Interpersonal Downward Arrow

Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT - The New Mood Therapy

David Burns, MD

Clinical, Therapy, Anxiety, Psychotherapy, Depression, Health & Fitness, Cognitive, Mentalhealth, Mental Health, Behavior, Education, Self-improvement, Psychology, Relationships, Addiction, Happiness, Personalgrowth

4.4856 Ratings

🗓️ 12 June 2017

⏱️ 38 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The Roles and the Rules—Psychoanalysis at Warp Speed!

Most of us run into conflicts with other people from time to time, or even frequently. In this podcast, you will discover precisely why this happens, and how you to change the beliefs that get you into trouble, if that’s what you want to do.

Psychoanalysts sometimes help people discover what they call “core conflicts.” According to the highly regarded psychoanalytic researcher Lester Luborsky, PhD, an example of a core conflict might be, “My needs will never be met in my relationships with others.” If you believe this, it will tend to function as a self-fulfilling prophecy, so you’ll constantly feel hurt, lonely, and rejected, and perhaps resentful when you try to get close to others. And you probably won’t realize you’re creating your own painful interpersonal reality. You’ll think that this is just the way it is. Once you bring the painful system to conscious awareness, you can use a variety of powerful techniques to change your expectations and beliefs so you can enjoy far greater satisfaction and intimacy in your relationships with others.

David and Fabrice will illustrate a powerful, high-speed method that to bring your own Interpersonal Self-Defeating Beliefs to conscious awareness. David has called it the Interpersonal Downward Arrow Technique. David and Fabrice will revisit the same clinical example from the last Podcast—the psychologist named Harold who felt devastated when his favorite patient unexpectedly committed suicide, but in this podcast they will examine how Harold sets up his relationships with his colleagues in a way that causes him to feel lonely, anxious, and resentful.

You can use the Interpersonal Downward Arrow Technique to identify anybody's Self-Defeating Beliefs in five to seven minutes, as opposed to spending five years or more free-associating on an analyst’s couch to get the same information. Not a bad deal!

During the podcast, you may want to download and print “The Rules and the Roles” form that David and Fabrice will be using during the podcast. There will be an exercise for you to do while you are listening. But don’t do the written exercise if you’re listening while driving in your car!

In the next podcast, David and Fabrice will discuss a third powerful uncovering technique developed by the late Dr. Albert Ellis, a former psychoanalyst from New York who is considered the "Grandfather of Cognitive Therapy." It’s called the “What-If Technique," and Dr. Burns will bring it to life with an inspiring and dramatic story of a woman from San Francisco who had been suffering from years of mild depression and severe Agoraphobia—the intense fear of leaving home alone.

So stay tuned! And feel free to comment below or ask questions. Fabrice and I greatly appreciate your feedback and guidance!

If you are reading this blog on social media, I appreciate it! I would like to invite you to visit my website, http://www.FeelingGood.com, as well. There you will find a wealth of free goodies, including my Feeling Good blogs, my Feeling Good Podcasts with host, Dr. Fabrice Nye, and the Ask Dr. David blogs as well, along with announcements of upcoming workshops, and resources for mental health professionals as well as patients!

Once you link to my blog, you can sign up using the widget at the top of the column to the right of each page. Please firward my blogs to friends as well, especially anyone with an interest in mood problems, psychotherapy, or relationship conflicts.

 

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Hello and welcome to the Feeling Good podcast.

0:12.4

I am your host, Fabrice Nye.

0:14.7

And joining me here in the Murrieta Studios is Dr. David Burns.

0:19.0

Hi, David.

0:20.0

Hi, Fabrice.

0:23.8

Dr. David Burns has been a pioneer in the development of cognitive therapy, and he is the creator of the new team therapy. He is the author of

0:30.2

Feeling Good, which has sold over 5 million copies in the United States, and has been translated into

0:35.5

over 20 languages.

0:43.0

He is an emeritus adjunct clinical professor of psychiatry at the Stanford University School of Medicine.

0:45.9

Welcome to episode 40 of the Feeling Good podcast.

0:50.8

And today we're going to continue with the uncovering techniques.

0:54.5

We're going to be talking about the interpersonal downward arrow.

0:59.8

And what's at the bottom of this here are the interpersonal self-defeating beliefs.

1:06.3

So I'm wondering, David, if you could tell us a little bit about what those interpersonal and

1:12.3

self-defeating beliefs are and how they differ from the individual self-defeating beliefs.

1:17.4

Right. In the last podcast, we talked about individual self-defeating beliefs that predisposes

1:23.4

to depression and anxiety, like the belief my worth as a human being depends on my

1:28.7

achievements and also perfectionism. My achievements have to be tremendous or they're no good at all.

1:36.3

And if I fall short of my goals and expectations, I'm a total failure. And those kinds of

1:43.5

beliefs will create anxiety, worrying about failure, and then depression falling apart.

1:50.0

Right, that's what we saw last time.

1:51.9

Now, interpersonal self-defeating beliefs function differently.

...

Please login to see the full transcript.

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from David Burns, MD, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of David Burns, MD and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.

Copyright © Tapesearch 2025.