This is A Sustainable Mind, episode 23.

I'm in a tiny house, and not everyone wants to live in one.

A lot of people are going to want to stay in the urban centers.

And if you're going to want to stay in the urban centers, you're going to have to learn to live in a smaller space.

And that's the direction that I think housing is going.

Welcome to a Sustainable Mind podcast, where we delve into the minds behind today's most

impactful environmental campaigns, organizations, and startups, inspiring the

environmental change makers of tomorrow.

I'm your host, Marjorie Alexander.

Today, I am super excited to have on the show Perry Gruber.

Perry is a man of many, many hats.

He's an entrepreneur, an author, speaker, and social engineer.

And actually, Perry is the founder of Copiosis, which is a socioeconomic system designed to gently phase out

capitalism as we know it, which he'll speak to a little bit in this interview. But the real reason

that I'm having Perry on is because of his involvement in the tiny house community. Perry is the

co-founder of the Tiny House podcast, which is the number one podcast in the world about tiny houses.

And he actually just broke ground on his own build where he lives in Portland.

So please welcome to the show, Perry Gruber.

Hi, good morning.

Good morning.

I want to jump right in here.

We have a ton to talk about.

...