Welcome back. This is episode 21 of Books Closed.

This episode is sponsored by Tattoo Smart, your resource for digital tattoo design tools,

and the original tattoo pillow, a vinyl pillow designed for tattooers by tattooers.

Before we start, I want to give you one last reminder that we've teamed up with TattooSmart

for a giveaway.

One of you can win a $500 gift card to TattooSmart.com along with some Books Closed swag.

You can load up on a ton of digital design tools if you're the winner. And there's only one more week

to enter. You go to booksclosedpodcast.com for all the information and figure out how to get

your name in the running. The winner will be announced on next week's show. So don't waste

another minute. I want to thank Tattoo Smart for helping to make this giveaway possible.

Now with that said, this week is the party episode.

This is the last conversation I filmed while at the Bay Area Tattoo Convention in San Francisco this past fall,

and I've been waiting for just the right time to unleash it upon you.

After one of the convention days, I ambushed a few people that were standing around after

most had left for the night and pulled them into a room to film this.

I usually try to plan before an interview and get some notes and ideas and craft a nice

flowing conversation.

And this episode is none of that.

I mean, the conversation flows pretty well,

but that's not due to any of my preparation.

Luckily, I ended up with a great group of tattooers

that did all the hard work for me.

...